Full Version: Should it be Illegal to burn the flag and why?
The question is should it be illegal the burn the flag? Please post your reason for your response.
Ok, here's my answer: YES. Why? We talk about freedom of speech and such, but if you walk down the middle of the street naked, aren't you gonna get arrested? Yes, but isn't this freedom of speech/expression? Yes, but still it's illegal. If you threaten to kill someone with words (but don't carry through) can you get arrested? Yes. Isn't this freedom of speech? Yes, but you'll still get arrested. You live in this country, and reap it's rewards (hopefully), I think you should respect it's national symbol. If you feel so strongly against the US and feel you must protest by burning it's flag, I'll gladly give you the directions to the nearest border crossing. You should be thinking about what is right, NOT what you have the "right" to do.
" You should be thinking about what is right, NOT what you have the "right" to do. "
Well said, and I agree!!!!!!!
Well said, and I agree!!!!!!!
i voted wrong , it should be legal
i went to nam so you can if you want
just don't expect me to come to your aid when a mob is beating your ass for doing so!
i went to nam so you can if you want
just don't expect me to come to your aid when a mob is beating your ass for doing so!
Well, the nudity thing, it's illegal because there are too many prudes that undress in the dark because nudity offends them. Then there is a safety factor because if I see a good looking woman walking down the street naked, I'd probabbly wreck my car. 
Outlawing the burning of the flag should be done for safety too, because if I see you doing it, I'll shoot your ass. That's MY freedom of expression!
Outlawing the burning of the flag should be done for safety too, because if I see you doing it, I'll shoot your ass. That's MY freedom of expression!
LOL 
I think we should legalize nudity and leave the flag alone!
QUOTE(terabyte @ Jul 1 2005, 06:43 PM)
I think we should legalize nudity and leave the flag alone!
Hahahahahahahahaha.......
It is and should be legal
You can't legislate morality, or patriotism.
I would hope people will respect the flag, understand it's symbolism, and only burn it as a last resort (shortly before leaving the country, if you don't believe it can be fixed, LEAVE!)
If you block this fairly harmless (no-violent, until ace gets wind of it)form of self expession (as rude and unthinking as it sometimes is)
who Knows how the anger will come out.
You can't legislate morality, or patriotism.
I would hope people will respect the flag, understand it's symbolism, and only burn it as a last resort (shortly before leaving the country, if you don't believe it can be fixed, LEAVE!)
If you block this fairly harmless (no-violent, until ace gets wind of it)form of self expession (as rude and unthinking as it sometimes is)
who Knows how the anger will come out.
Why then can't you go anywhere you want, say anything you want, do anything you want? Isn't that freedom of speech/expression? There are limits to anything. There are some things that are plain wrong, and that's why we have laws. Killing someone can be construed as a freedom of expression. I don't go for the crap that it's an innocuous expression that doesn't hurt anyone, because it hurts me, and deprives me of my pride in my country. Like it or not, you burn a flag in my presence and you will be hurting.
Yes, it should it be illegal to burn the flag-or what represents the ideological basis of the United States! The flag should not be worn on one's butt either, spit upon, burned, or otherwise mutilated or disrespected in any way! Perhaps, we do this for the special cloth? No. Then, for the colors of the flag? No. Well, just for what then? Out of respect of all those that died, or were severely wounded fighting for this country, and our freedoms-not the freedom to burn the very symbol that represents what they were fighting for as some have suggested. This respect is applicable to all those on the home front as well that love their country, and yet still have compassion and generosity for the less fortunate too-both here and abroad! Would support a constructional amendment to insure that those that desecrate flag get to spend some time in the slam.
I'm with you Ace.DO NOT burn that flag in front of me, unless you want a guaranteed fight. That's not a threat,it's a solemn promise.
I think flag burning should be legalized - with the stipulation that whomever wants to burn a flag first wrap themselves in it. 
Here's what I posted at TTZ:
For me - the burning of the flag 'in protest' is insulting and a slap in the face of everyone who's sacrificed and died for the cause of the freedoms we currently enjoy.
It's not just a collection of thread and fabric - it IS a national symbol, and it represents the very idiological motivation for our forefathers had for declaring our independence from England.
As a national symbol, it holds just as much idiological value as the Constitution, which is the very thing that grants individual freedom of speech and the basis for our laws. The flag, the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and all of the other iconic representation of our American history (Statue of Liberty, Washington Monument, Liberty Bell, etc.) are the very representation of our transition to our way of life during various defining points in our country's existence.
Would it be prudent to burn a copy of the Constitution 'in protest' claiming freedom of speech? Not hardly - it only serves to demonstrate the hypocrisy and ignorance of the people committing the act. And it holds the same for flag - for the reasons mentioned above. You can't have one without the other - flying the flag states emphatically that 'I am an American citizen, and I believe in the Constitution of the United States of America, and I pledge my allegiance to my country.' You can't have one without the other - it's part of the package that makes up our successful departure from the reign of 18th century England.
Another example of the ignorance and hypocrisy the stereotypical 'pro-flag-burning-freedom-of-speecher' is when they say 'Support our Troops,' yet choose to desicrate one of the very things our troops have dedicated their lives to defending and protecting along with our way of life. By burning a flag in protest, you are insulting the very being of the military, which is comprised of your neighbors, friends, and family. How do people justify insulting the very people you care about? It's easy - they're ignorant.
Burning said flags for reasons outside of the purpose of retiring the flag is saying, 'Screw America and all it stands for.' It's an insult to everything that everyone has fought and sacrificed for throughout our history. People that adopt that attitude, yet continue to reside within our borders are hypocrites, pure and simple. And if they're ignorant enough to 'bite the hand that feeds them,' then they have outstayed their welcome, as far as I'm concerned.
And with that attitude, you can exercise your freedom to get the Hell out of my country. There are precious few countries on the face of this Earth that will allow individuals the freedom to keep spitting in the face of the very people who afford them the freedom to do so. And ya know - even a puppy is smart enough not to crap in his own bed - you'd think people would wise-up too.
Yes - I believe there should be a law against flag-burning 'for purposes other than retiring the flag.' It's a small price to pay for all the rest we enjoy. It's too bad people don't 'get it.'
And IMHO - with all the ignorant assholes out there abusing it, 'Freedom of Speech' should be a privilege - not a right.
</soapbox>
Here's what I posted at TTZ:
For me - the burning of the flag 'in protest' is insulting and a slap in the face of everyone who's sacrificed and died for the cause of the freedoms we currently enjoy.
It's not just a collection of thread and fabric - it IS a national symbol, and it represents the very idiological motivation for our forefathers had for declaring our independence from England.
As a national symbol, it holds just as much idiological value as the Constitution, which is the very thing that grants individual freedom of speech and the basis for our laws. The flag, the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and all of the other iconic representation of our American history (Statue of Liberty, Washington Monument, Liberty Bell, etc.) are the very representation of our transition to our way of life during various defining points in our country's existence.
Would it be prudent to burn a copy of the Constitution 'in protest' claiming freedom of speech? Not hardly - it only serves to demonstrate the hypocrisy and ignorance of the people committing the act. And it holds the same for flag - for the reasons mentioned above. You can't have one without the other - flying the flag states emphatically that 'I am an American citizen, and I believe in the Constitution of the United States of America, and I pledge my allegiance to my country.' You can't have one without the other - it's part of the package that makes up our successful departure from the reign of 18th century England.
Another example of the ignorance and hypocrisy the stereotypical 'pro-flag-burning-freedom-of-speecher' is when they say 'Support our Troops,' yet choose to desicrate one of the very things our troops have dedicated their lives to defending and protecting along with our way of life. By burning a flag in protest, you are insulting the very being of the military, which is comprised of your neighbors, friends, and family. How do people justify insulting the very people you care about? It's easy - they're ignorant.
Burning said flags for reasons outside of the purpose of retiring the flag is saying, 'Screw America and all it stands for.' It's an insult to everything that everyone has fought and sacrificed for throughout our history. People that adopt that attitude, yet continue to reside within our borders are hypocrites, pure and simple. And if they're ignorant enough to 'bite the hand that feeds them,' then they have outstayed their welcome, as far as I'm concerned.
And with that attitude, you can exercise your freedom to get the Hell out of my country. There are precious few countries on the face of this Earth that will allow individuals the freedom to keep spitting in the face of the very people who afford them the freedom to do so. And ya know - even a puppy is smart enough not to crap in his own bed - you'd think people would wise-up too.
Yes - I believe there should be a law against flag-burning 'for purposes other than retiring the flag.' It's a small price to pay for all the rest we enjoy. It's too bad people don't 'get it.'
And IMHO - with all the ignorant assholes out there abusing it, 'Freedom of Speech' should be a privilege - not a right.
</soapbox>
This is a good start! Now, perhaps the flag desecration constitutional amendment is next. Hopefully, this will pass too. Still, some states now may have some second thoughts concerning their vets and folks that cherish the symbolism of the flag, and support the current Congressional action!. BTW, nice responses, Ace, and Mister 4x4, you both more than amplify what many in the thread have said very well. Article below may be of some current interest.
________________________________________________________________________
U.S. House passes resolution seeking to outlaw flag burning
Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 07:51 JST
WASHINGTON — The U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday approved, by a vote of 286 to 130, a measure which aims to outlaw desecration of the American flag.
Supporters said the law was meant in particular to discourage demonstrators who might burn or otherwise damage the flag in the course of a protest.
"Freedom of political speech does not include the destruction of a physical object — especially one that thousands of soldiers have sworn and fought to protect," said House Majority Leader Tom DeLay.
"The flag protection resolution does not restrict the constitutional rights of any one person. It restores legal respect to the flag by allowing states to make their own laws concerning the defense of our nation's most precious symbol of freedom," the Republican leader said.
The top House Democrat, Nancy Pelosi, spoke on the House floor against the measure.
"I oppose the flag desecration constitutional amendment," she said. "To truly honor our flag, we should honor what the flag ultimately symbolizes - our commitment to freedom and democracy, including free speech, even speech that we find distasteful."
In 1989, the Supreme Court ruled that the burning of an American flag was an example of protected political speech under the Constitution, a decision which the House bill meant to undo.
The resolution does not directly prohibit desecration of the U.S. flag, but it empowers individual states to legislate against the burning and desecration of the American flag.
The flag protection amendment requires the vote of a two-third majority of each chamber of Congress and would only become effective upon ratification by the legislatures of three quarters of the states.
The House has passed a similar measure in each of the past five years, but the measure has yet to clear the Senate. (Wire reports)
Article below may be of some current interest.________________________________________________________________________
U.S. House passes resolution seeking to outlaw flag burning
Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 07:51 JST
WASHINGTON — The U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday approved, by a vote of 286 to 130, a measure which aims to outlaw desecration of the American flag.
Supporters said the law was meant in particular to discourage demonstrators who might burn or otherwise damage the flag in the course of a protest.
"Freedom of political speech does not include the destruction of a physical object — especially one that thousands of soldiers have sworn and fought to protect," said House Majority Leader Tom DeLay.
"The flag protection resolution does not restrict the constitutional rights of any one person. It restores legal respect to the flag by allowing states to make their own laws concerning the defense of our nation's most precious symbol of freedom," the Republican leader said.
The top House Democrat, Nancy Pelosi, spoke on the House floor against the measure.
"I oppose the flag desecration constitutional amendment," she said. "To truly honor our flag, we should honor what the flag ultimately symbolizes - our commitment to freedom and democracy, including free speech, even speech that we find distasteful."
In 1989, the Supreme Court ruled that the burning of an American flag was an example of protected political speech under the Constitution, a decision which the House bill meant to undo.
The resolution does not directly prohibit desecration of the U.S. flag, but it empowers individual states to legislate against the burning and desecration of the American flag.
The flag protection amendment requires the vote of a two-third majority of each chamber of Congress and would only become effective upon ratification by the legislatures of three quarters of the states.
The House has passed a similar measure in each of the past five years, but the measure has yet to clear the Senate. (Wire reports)
Military protocol says the flag shall Never be laid flat or touch the ground. It may be draped over a coffin and displayed on a wall. If soiled, it may be cleaned. If worn or tattered, it may be burned in a ceramony as not to have it captured and displayed by an enemy. Respecting a country's symbol where you live is what you should do. If you don't like the country, leave. If you don't like what the government of that country is doing, vote, start petitions, gain support for your cause, but burning the very symbol the represents your right to do just that is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I'm done here. Hope that the flag burning pussies don't get in my path.
Burning the flag of your country is soooo not cool. 
It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, serves beneath the flag flag and whose coffin is draped by the flag that allows the protestor to burn the flag.
http://www.greencis.net/~bonnie/ussconstan...nt/flagburn.htm
Another well said message, especially the protester wrapping themself up in the the Flag before they burn it. 
my feelings, ppl have the right to do it, but I personaly find it discrasful.
thats what i say
dont burn you own contrys flag
burn other contrys flags
so its fine to burn american ones
dont burn you own contrys flag
burn other contrys flags
so its fine to burn american ones
there should be no legal stance on this...just more propaganda from the machine...
maybe they should make some laws concerning child molesters, and the legalization of medical marijuana for sick folks...or, how about benifits for those effected by Agent Orange...
nope...gotta make a law stopping people from burning the flag, and throw them in jail...yup, best thing to do...yup yup...hey, while we are at it...lets add onto the National Anthem, and add in something else blowing up, or nuking some country...
just stupid...it is it is...
if someone wants to burn a flag, heck go ahead...its not hurting anyone...just people looking for a fight...heck, guess thats the american way...fight or sue...
hey, check out this new law in Canada...any soldier that was made ill from Agent Orange now gets FULL disability compensation, and a full pension from the Canadian Gov't...
and when visiting us up here in canada, please remember to use your turn signals, and that GREEN means DRIVE, and RED means stop...you cannot STOP whenever you feel like it on the road...this causes canadians to rear-end you, and most likely die...if the road does not have a dotted white line in the middle, it is only 1 lane...stop side swipping people when you decide that you do not want to turn in the turn lane, and continue straight...do not DRINK canadian beer, it causes you to get stupid, and you break stuff...oh, and yes, wear our flag when you decide to burn it in your drunken stupour...
maybe they should make some laws concerning child molesters, and the legalization of medical marijuana for sick folks...or, how about benifits for those effected by Agent Orange...
nope...gotta make a law stopping people from burning the flag, and throw them in jail...yup, best thing to do...yup yup...hey, while we are at it...lets add onto the National Anthem, and add in something else blowing up, or nuking some country...
just stupid...it is it is...
if someone wants to burn a flag, heck go ahead...its not hurting anyone...just people looking for a fight...heck, guess thats the american way...fight or sue...
hey, check out this new law in Canada...any soldier that was made ill from Agent Orange now gets FULL disability compensation, and a full pension from the Canadian Gov't...
and when visiting us up here in canada, please remember to use your turn signals, and that GREEN means DRIVE, and RED means stop...you cannot STOP whenever you feel like it on the road...this causes canadians to rear-end you, and most likely die...if the road does not have a dotted white line in the middle, it is only 1 lane...stop side swipping people when you decide that you do not want to turn in the turn lane, and continue straight...do not DRINK canadian beer, it causes you to get stupid, and you break stuff...oh, and yes, wear our flag when you decide to burn it in your drunken stupour...
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