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Mandark
Well, it happened in the last day or two. Official word came down from Canadian leaders that tax revenue (tax rates are already too high) will NOT cover the Medical expenditures.

If the Canadian government inflates the money supply (FIAT money) to pay the bill, thus devaluating the currency more, will only make matters worse.....

Keep your eyes on Canada. It is getting ready to go completely bust. I expect that in the near future, maybe 2-5 yrs time, that Canada will be forced to drop the Socialist welfare gig.... so no more "paid for" health care, in other words.
odie
Where in hell did you get that info from? icon_rolleyes.gif
Mandark
hang on.. i'll post link.... i think Bloomberg

you dont even pay attention to your own coutries affairs?
Mandark
QUOTE
Canada's healthcare remains public  
By Ken Warn  
Published: December 4 2002 18:58 | Last Updated: December 4 2002 18:58  
 
 
Few topics are as guaranteed to make Canadians go misty-eyed as hockey and healthcare. The country's universal, taxpayer-funded healthcare system is widely seen as one of the foundations of national identity, an overwhelmingly moral rather than economic enterprise offering equal treatment to those of different class, race or language.

 
Like hockey, healthcare raises strong passions. Canada's system, modelled on Britain's National Health Service, is widely cherished. But lengthening waiting lists and shortages of key personnel have led many Canadians to urge more resources for the creaking system.

Canada is truly the home of one-stop shopping for health. Unlike in Britain, private parallel healthcare provision is in effect outlawed. Unlike France and a host of other developed countries, there is no use of "top-up" health insurance, and there are no user fees.

After an 18-month, C$15m commission into the system, Roy Romanow, former premier of Saskatchewan, said he would like to keep it that way. To the dismay of the Canadian right, Mr Romanow last week rejected fundamental changes in how the system is financed.

He suggested increased public funding for magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) and other diagnostic scanning, which would roll back one of the few areas where private provision has been growing. Private clinics have been opening across the country to provide scans or minor surgery in provinces keen to reduce waiting lists.

However, such clinics contract directly with local health authorities, and their services remain free at the point of delivery.

Mr Romanow appeared to tap into opposition to the idea of private healthcare embedded in the psyche of many Canadians. "Let people buy their way openly to the front of the line. Make healthcare a business. Stop treating it as a public service, available equally to all . . . No! Not now, not ever," he wrote in the preamble to his report.

Instead of private cash, he prescribed a C$15bn injection of federal funds into the C$100bn-a-year system by 2006. The funding would increase the federal share of healthcare spending to about 25 per cent from the current 19 per cent - the remainder is made up by the provinces.

He urged more accountability through creating a healthcare watchdog, and extending the scope of Medicare through a national home care programme and assistance with drug costs for the chronically ill.

Mr Romanow's report raises several dilemmas for Ottawa. Economists believe the recommendations cannot be fully financed unless the government puts other spending plans on hold.

"If healthcare wins out there is just no room for other measures," said Derek Burleton, senior economist at TD Bank Financial Group. Even if healthcare alone wins extra funding, the government's projected budget surpluses will turn to deficit in 2003-04, TD Bank said.

The commission's recommendations will go through federal-provincial negotiations, starting with a meeting of first ministers in January. But Ottawa is hinting it will not fund all Mr Romanow's recommendations.

Many of the provinces, in turn, are wary of the report's suggestion that federal health funding should come through a dedicated block grant, which they say would increase Ottawa's control of a key provincial responsibility. The talks could prove lengthy and difficult.

However, the government is committed to substantial increases in healthcare spending and appears certain not to challenge Mr Romanow's rejection of an increased role for private provision.

That makes the entire report a lost opportunity, according to John Graham, senior policy analyst at the Fraser Institute, a pro- market think-tank. "The main problem is that Romanow wants to throw more money into a government monopoly. He can't see that a lot of the problems in the system are caused by that very monopoly."

For all its power as a symbol of social solidarity, international comparisons do not show Canadian healthcare in a good light. Canada is one of the biggest spenders among OECD countries providing universal coverage, in terms of the proportion of GDP spent on healthcare.

However, in terms of the numbers of doctors per thousand people, or the numbers of MRI machines, Canada languishes well down the list of developed nations.

Canada appears wedded to universal, taxpayer-funded healthcare for the foreseeable future. But in spite of Mr Romanow's distaste for private provision, provinces such as Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia look set to continue contracting for services with private clinics - moves the unions claim open the way to privatisation.
 
 


http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?p...d=1037872544187
Mandark
Holy crap BatMan!!! So, Current tax revenues will not cover the bill, so they are creating funny money (like the USA does) and inflating the money supply.

When this happens, foreign investment is stifled. The worth of the Canadian dollar (C$) falls even further. If other countries do lend Canada money, they don't want to be paid in C$... they want US $ or Euro's.

from the above article

QUOTE
That makes the entire report a lost opportunity, according to John Graham, senior policy analyst at the Fraser Institute, a pro- market think-tank. "The main problem is that Romanow wants to throw more money into a government monopoly. He can't see that a lot of the problems in the system are caused by that very monopoly."


Roll your eyes all you want.... you heard it here first....
MadCow
Being a Canadian I do not share you views on our Country.

I can never see healthcare go the way of dino's. If any thing there tier health care will come, not never totally go...

And I one thing I don't like is Americans saying how bad our system is and that its going to blow up... Why, 2 things... the first is that US hardly knows shit about Canada (i.e. only 8% oh ppl in the US know who are Prime Minister is... and 2end... according to UN's Human Development Indicators Canada has been ranked over US for 7+ years... with an average of 3.5 ranks above... so I really don't think you have much to talk about…
Mandark
Is that why a 57 year old man cannot qualify for open heart surgury? or that elderly women cannot be treated for breast cancer?

Great system.

This is not bashing. I am stating facts published by your government agencies. If you don't like it, too bad.

This is my prediction. It is also the prediction of many anaylists world-wide. I see tough financial times for Canada. Does that mean I hate Canada? HELL NO! I WANT Canada to prosper! If Canada goes bust, the USA will hurt big time too!

I hope Canadians will force their government into making responsible decisions and avoid a complete fall-out. I also hope the USA does the same.
Mandark
QUOTE
Being a Canadian I do not share you views on our Country.

I can never see healthcare go the way of dino's.  If any thing there tier health care will come, not never totally go...


Ok, can you tell me how they are going to pay for it? What is the Tax Rate there on wages.... Total Tax. They cannot afford to keep raising taxes.... no matter what you think.

Any good Economist can clearly see that there is a huge financial bomb that is ticking away.
MadCow
I'm confident in our Government to find a solution.
And, Sorry Mandark, but this is our problem, not yours.
Jason
So the rest of the world will end up bailing out Canada ?
Mandark
QUOTE
I'm confident in our Government to find a solution.
And, Sorry Mandark, but this is our problem, not yours.


In a way it is my problem too. We are close neighbors. Don't think that Americans hate your country at all.
odie
uhh .. yes I keep quite informed of what happens here in Canada.

The government is looking for ways to revamp the health care system...

Do I see canada going bust? Not on your life.

I am a strong believer that people should pay for their own health care and not depend on the government to cover their health costs... yes... we do pay taxes for that... but some people take it for granted and abuse the system...

I believe the country would be healthier on the whole if they took care of themselves more and did not depend on social health care... IMHO... but hey... I get sick, you don't see me running to the hospital emergency for a remedy... plain and simple people have to be tougher when it comes to being ill...

And you do have to remember, NOT the federal government, but the provinces are also involved too... Here in Ontario, the government cut back on spending to the health care.. but why?... they found the hospitals wasting it on non-essentials and administration... when the money should have been alocated to more hospital beds and doctors... etc etc...

Prime example here... , we are trying to get a new hospital site and close the two we have to cut costs... but... money was given to one of the hospitals for more beds and essential health care and what did they do with it.... renovate the emergency waiting room at the hosptial... that is waste...

I think what the government is trying to due is curb the waste that has plagued the health care system. Just like the educational system here... they found enormous amounts of waste and now all the teachers are whining no money... well thats what you get when you elect officials on the school boards that waste money... you pay the piper eventually..

Just my 2 cents... I come froma family of teachers... hee hee... they don't like when I bring up education politics.. hee hee... me Bad

Ohhh.. and another example of huge mismanagement of money... The Governemt a few years back introduced a new gun registry that ws only suppose to cost 2 million thats $2,000,000.00 CDN. dollars... auditor found out the bill has BALLOONED to $1,000,000,000.00 and i quote them "Its inexcusable"... I agree Manny... politicans should be held responsible for their actions and come good for their mistakes...
MadCow
No cus I am confident in our Government.
Mandark
I hope they are successful and wring out the waste icon_wink.gif
nfinitefx_
I hate the fact that we, the US, keeps printing money and spending money to try to cover our debt when we are only making it worse. Lets face it, not even Bill himself could pay off our national debt. We need to stop giving money to countries that don't need it.
*this next bit is my personal view, please do not be offended by it*

For example, we need to stop sending money to Israel every year. What is the exact figure we send them? a few hundred million? What is the damn point, they are already the leading diamond country in the world, why in the world are we shipping them money. Lets take care of ourselves before we help other people because no one is taking care of the people in the united states who are starving and need a home.
T-Shirt
Yup, canadians are about to find out the true cost of health care! (unfortunatly, for them)
as far as the gun reg. thing. How could anybody believe it would cost so little, it probably cost more than $2 mil CDN just to print the informational handouts, let alone run any sort of real program.
MadCow
The gun reg was a waste of money, true. But all governments waste money... I bet you US could pay its national dept easily if it did not waste so much on military (sorry ace)... and when it comes to military i know Canada is not the best...

every government spend money on things they shouldn?t...
Jason
Want to see the USA's national debt :

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

When I looked it was $6,347,104,079,986.31 icon_eek.gif icon_eek.gif icon_eek.gif
Ghandi
In 2000 w/President Clinton the debt was only $5.7 trillion.

I think Bush sucks turkey trot even though it is not all his fault he did allocate some $20 billion back to the American public that was then taxed by the states making the American public pay more taxes.

$6,347,136,893,141.11

that is...

Six Trillion, Three Hundred Forty-Seven Billion, One Hundred Thirty-Six Million, Eight Hundred Ninty-Three Thousand, One Hundred Forty-One Dollars and Eleven Cents

Try fitting that on your check! banana.gif
nfinitefx_
Those figures hurt. We really need to do something about it.
MadCow
WOWZERS thats alot...

Canada's is about 540 billion, thats about 15.5K (10K US) per person... compare that to US's 34K (22.3K US) per person...
bull
I work in Healthcare and have for 15+ years. Trust me, nobody has the market on wasting money like we do. Most of is is due to our system and the lawyers and politicians to run it. The liability alone is enough to choke one of coz's little horsey friends. People can sue over every little thing. I heard recently of a person trying to sue a local hospital because they got a big bruise from and IV stick. Sad thing is, they will end up getting something. icon_rolleyes.gif

Also, if we buy a "medical grade" refrigerator, it will cost us about $4K. I can go to a store and get the exact same one for less than 1/2. It's a load of crap.

There is nobody in this country who can throw stones at any country for waste and government stupidity. I love our country, but am very concerned about it quite often.

Plus, Canada is cool. They brought us Bob and Doug McKenzie, Madcow and Odie!!! :wink:
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