the war has begun..

ah man, I'm paranoid already i dont need this, i dont think anyone needs this.... bad bad bad bad bad!!!!!

saddam needs it.. he's an idoit thats gotta go

posted that kinda late didn't ya?

and the war technically hasn't begun.

that was a 'surgical strike'.

the actuall war won't begin for at least till Friday.

war is war
this was the first attack of it.. even if usa won't admit it

well it really is war now.

they launched 4 scuds at us.

and artillerary exchanged at Kuwati border with Iraq troops.

and marines destroyed 2 armored personel trucks.

it has begun. hopefully it ends quickly enough.

Its true what all the great intellects of the world say...... before man becomes advanced enough to realize how stupid war is, he will no longer be here.

Maybe he needs to go but I am not sure if it is the US that should decide about that... Everybody knows it is all about oil and big corporations not freedom for people of Irak.

thats quite funny mate,this war may cost 200billion,,could buy oil for the next 20 years.

Anyone who say's "It's all about oil" needs to sue the school they went to for the education they were supposed to get.

well, i hope the remove the damn fool from power...


good job you southern boys...just wish my PM had some balls like Bush and Blair...

SID!! SID!! SID!!
SID!!
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SID!!
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We know the economy is not to good up there rite now sid. Got ya covered.

Lol@Ace....your gettin hard nosed in your old age.



The sid

Yep... gonna be some serious ramafications on that little faux pas the PM did.

Hey friend how you doing?

We'd go into Yugoslavia again if it held a billionaire that was funding terrorist groups that had already attacked us three times, as we are doing in Iraq now.

Apparently, bcc20000, you also have not heard the reports of regarding the SCUD missile attack. SCUD missiles are a material breach of several U.N. resolutions regarding the disarming of Iraq. Iraq also claimed not to possess any SCUD missiles, yet they were able to launch four of these missiles at Kuwait.

I guess you also have not heard of the atrocities committed by Saddam and his sons against the Iraqi people. Many Iraqis have come to the U.S. to escape the barbaric treatment their rulers inflict upon them. They are more than willing to tell anyone who will listen about the torture, rape, and murder of anyone who voices dissent against the current regime.

The same forced removal of Milosevic was done when he did these things, which I don't hear you complaining about, bcc20000. This makes me wonder just what your motives are in claiming that this is just about oil.

you know what this is just pointless to talk about this war. That is why I deleted my last post. You just will not understand certain things. This war will not change anything but it surely will bring more terror into your country and too my country as well.

Which 'certain things' are the ones that I (or is it actually a 'we', as in Americans) will never understand?

Is it that three permanent members of the U.N. Security Council were against military action? These would be the same three members that all do billions of dollars worth of business with Saddam, and, by extension, Iraq, that do not wish to lose all of the money currently due them and all future business when he is deposed.

France is conserned because of the oil exploration rights they purchased from Saddam. Exploration rights which may well be voided when he is no longer in power.

Russia and China are concerned because Iraq is one of the few countries that they can sell their weapons to in large and profitable quantities. Sure, they're older weapons, but a sale is a sale and money is money.

China is probably concerned that North Korea will take this opportunity to start weapons testing again. If that happens, China just might have to deal with it themselves, instead of waiting for someone else (like the USA) to solve their problem for them.

Will it bring more terrorist attacks? Possibly, but there will be a large number of terrorists that lose a significant, if not their only, source of funding and training facilities, weapons, and intelligence gathering with the ouster, or death, of Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq.

*sings*Why can't we be friends, Why can't we be friends *sings*

Everyone is going to have there own opinion about war, and whether we like each others opinions or not, I am for the war, the freak has to be ousted and the country has to be freed from its opressions... plain and simple, like come on... look at what he has done and don't even let me start on Bin Freako from Afghanistan...

All I have to say is those two losers have bought themselves "one-way" tickets to hell...

If the United States chooses or does not choose to go into battle with a country, that is their decision.. its all about diplomacy and timing.

Just let them free the Iraqi peoples from there hell (Saddam Hussein), because I believe this time... it will happen, freedom is within their grasp.

Jean Chretian, IMHO, has severely crippled diplomatic and friendly relations with the states... and if their was one country I would want to have on my side and I would want to help out its the US... why, because they are OUR neighbours to the south...

All these pot smoking, tree hugging peace activists have to pull their blood shot eyed heads out their asses and come down to reality...

There are 3 things that are definite in life, death, taxes and WAR... War will never go away...

Oh and another thing.... bah... forget it...

Just my 4 cents... exchanged to U.S. pennies, its 2 cents

here's the plan... gemmi and awm from couterstrike (the one the couldn't miss you even if you pointed it the other way) and i'll kill saddam from here

it's all about playing god. i'm excited to see who the us will take on after this, after finding a potential treath within that country. what the us and bush have showed everyone now, is that the un comes second to the us, which i find arrogant as hell. it would have been war even if the whole world was against it, which IS pretty much what is happening right now. there could have been other ways to solve this. this is something no one wants except bloodthirsty leaders with triggerhappy fingers. good luck on your next election blair

There was no other way to solve this LL... they gave him (Saddam Hussein) options, he choose not to act on those options now he (not the Iraqi people) have to suffer with his decision.

I don't think Bush, Blair or any other country wants this... its a matter they have to do this. All options and routes have been exhausted, extreme measures are all thats left.

They are the leaders of the "Free World", and they are trying to give the iraqi people their "Freedom"

The certain things that you will not understand is how it feels to have a bomb dropped on your head. I would like to see you standing there with bombs exploding around you. I am curious whether your would say the same about this war after having such experience. You watch the war from the comfort of your home and go about doing your regular stuff and at the same time people die over there.

You should know that the biggest exporter of weapons in the world is not China or Russia but your country. Your country also holds the biggest arsenal of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons in the world so maybe in order to set an example for the rest of the world it should be the US that destroys its entire arsenal of weapons of mass destruction first.

If your government is so determined to promote world peace and freedom to all then once done with Iraq its next target should be Saudi Arabia, Israel and North Korea

Saudi Arabia because its people sponsor terrorism around the world (from your money by the way) and they will continue to do so because in spite of what they say they are not your friends.

Israel because we all know about the Palestinian problem and about Israelis settling on the Palestinian land. This is clear injustice so the U.S should send their troops over there to fix this problem.

North Korea is obvious and it does not need explanation.

Your argument that this war is expensive and the war is about freedom not oil does not hold because future economical benefits, which the U.S will draw from controlling Iraq, are far greater than the cost of this war.

This war is an exaple that the US does not care about the opinion of the other countries because it acts against the UN.

And please do not tell me about the coalition of the "willing" or whatever your government calls it. This coalition is mostly made of poor eastern Europe nations, which hope that by backing the US they will draw some financial benefits in the future.

I am happy that Canada is no part of this war.

Ah Dude.... September 11th... a few psychos used 747 airliners as bombs in NY... so I am pretty sure the victims families and survivors of 911 know what it feels like...

There is a quote that goes something like this...



I think thats how it goes... but don't quote me on this.

Oh and BTW, the oil profits from iraq will be used to rebuild the country, thats what they will be using the oil profits for.

Check out your TV's. MSNBC, FOXNews, CNN etc. "Shock and Awe"

You damn right.

uh-huh. i see a little contradiction right there. how is the iraqi people getting away with this war? won't they suffer trough it? i don't give a sh*t about saddam hussein. kill him for all i care, but you don't need to trash the whole country for that. turning afghanistan upside down haven't brought you bin laden now has it? this is another one of bush'es headhunts, and instead of actually just poppin saddam with a single rifle, he has to play battleship with iraq in hope of hitting him

I notice you're not in any danger, either, being in Canada. Your country hasn't even had the 'pleasure' of having an entire city block turned into rubble inside of a single morning. Also, since you are here and posting, I don't think you've had a bomb dropped on your head, either. :wink:



You'll notice that all the weapons found in Iraq are Russian or Chinese. Every weapon found in Afghanistan that was not one that we gave them to fight the Russians 20 years ago is from Russia or China. With India, Pakistan, China, Russia, North Korea, and who knows how many former Soviet states holding all of the same types of weapons you would like us to destroy and willing to use them once the threat of reprisal is gone, no deal. The only thing that's kept the US from being nuked already are those very same weapons



I agree we should deal with the Saudis right after we're done with Iraq.



Yes, Israel should leave the occupied territories. Unfortunately, there are still far too many Palestinians willing to blow themselves, and anyone in reach, to pieces for Israel to feel that they can leave and not be attacked even more often than they are now. If the terrorist attacks on Israel stopped, they would leave, it's that simple.



No arguement from me on that one.



That wasn't my arguement, but here's the deal. The US isn't interested in controlling Iraq, just in putting a democracy in place of a dictatorship. The U.N. will actually be the ones controlling the money from the sale of Iraqi oil.



We're enforcing the U.N.'s own resolution, numbered 1441, regarding the disarming that Iraq was to have done over a decade ago. We were going to put another (the 18th!) resolution on the table giving a firm deadline for disarmament, but France vowed to veto ANY resolution we put forth, regardless of its terms or conditions. This threat of a veto was spurred by the fact that France billions of dollars worth of business in Iraq each year. Chirac was also afraid that all of the oil exploration rights he had negotiated with Saddam Hussein would be nullified by a regime change, as I pointed out in my previous post. Russia was against military action because they are owed $8,000,000,000 by Saddam's regime. That's money they will likely never see, now.



Of course that's what they hope. They also hope that some stability in the Middle East will open new markets for goods and services they can provide, thereby generating desperately needed income for their countries, jobs for their people, and a chance to finally get past the decades of oppression they suffered at the hands of the Soviet Union. Is wanting a better life a crime now, too?



I'm glad you're happy about something!

Well, I am happy the USA and UK have stood up and took the much needed action.

IRAQ WILL be a free country.

Sorry but I think after 12 years of on /off UN inspections it had to result in this.

Don't go back, Mr. President. You walked away from the United Nations at great cost and with great courage. Don't go back.

No one knows when this war will end. But when it does, you'll have to decide the terms. Yet in the last few days both you and Tony Blair have said you will seek a new U.N. resolution, postwar, providing for the governance of Iraq.

Why in God's name would we want to re-empower the French in deciding the postwar settlement? Why would we want to grant them influence over the terms, the powers, the duration of an occupation bought at the price of American and British blood? France, Germany and Russia did everything they could to sabotage your policy before the war. Will they want to see it succeed after?

The Frankfurt Allgemeine reports that on Feb. 21, Germany's U.N. ambassador, Gunter Pleuger, wrote his Foreign Ministry that the United States, blocked on a U.N. war resolution and fighting alone, would later "remorsefully return to the council" to seek help in rebuilding Iraq.

That is their game. Why should we play into it? And why return the issue to Kofi Annan, who had the audacity to declare the war illegitimate because it is supported by only 17 U.N. resolutions and not 18?

Mr. President, we lost at the United Nations. Badly. But that signal defeat had one significant side benefit. For the first time, Americans got to see what the United Nations truly is. The experience has been bracing. The result has been an enormous and salutary shift in American public opinion.

You've seen the polls: 75 percent of Americans disapprove of U.N. handling of the situation with Iraq. In December, polls showed a majority of Americans opposed to a war without U.N. backing. Today, after the U.N. debacle, 71 percent support the war regardless.

What happened? Americans finally had a look inside the sausage factory. Their image of the "U.N." as a legitimating institution had always been deeply sentimental, based on the U.N. of their youth -- UNICEF, refugee help, earthquake assistance. A global Mother Teresa. That's what they thought, and that's why they held it in esteem and cared about what it said. Now they know that the "U.N." is not UNICEF collection boxes, but a committee of cynical, resentful, ex-imperial powers like France and Russia serving their own national interests -- and delighting in frustrating America's -- without the slightest reference to the moral issues at stake. The American public understands that this is not a body in which to entrust American values or U.S. security.

On Sept. 12, 2002, you gave the United Nations a fair test: Act like a real instrument for collective security -- or die like the League of Nations. The United Nations failed spectacularly. The American people saw it. And they are now with you in leaving the United Nations behind.

Why resurrect it after the war? When not destructive, as on Iraq, it is useless, as on North Korea. China has blocked the Security Council from even meeting to deal with North Korea's brazen nuclear breakout. On this one, the Security Council wants the United States to unilaterally engage North Korea -- this amid daily excoriations of the United States for "unilateralism."

The hypocrisy is stunning. But the deeper issue is that the principal purpose of the Security Council is not to restrain tyrants, but to restrain the United States.

The Security Council is nothing more than the victory coalition of 1945. That was six decades ago. Let a new structure be born out of the Iraq coalition. Maybe it will acquire a name, maybe it won't. But it is this coalition of freedom -- led by the United States and Britain and about 30 other nations, including such moderate Arab states as Jordan, Kuwait, Bahrain and Qatar -- that should set and institutionalize the terms for postwar Iraq. Not the Security Council.

If we're going to negotiate terms, it should be with allies who helped us, who share our vision and our purposes.

There were wars and truces and treaties before the United Nations was created -- as there will be after its demise. No need to formally leave the United Nations, Mr. President. Just ignore it. Without us, it will wither away.

Fighting a war and rebuilding Iraq are tasks enough, I know. But serendipity -- and France -- has given you the opportunity to build new international structures without the albatross of this hopeless anachronism.

No act of commission is required. Just omission. Don't return, Mr. President. Don't give Ambassador Pleuger the satisfaction of seeing you crawl back.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/edit...itorial/1828625

Palestinians are not terrorists. Isreal calls them "terrorists" to justify its actions. I guess "terrorist" is a very popular word those days. Isreal is occupying Palestinians territories and not the other way around. Palestinians do nothing else but defending what is theirs. I think that they would not have to blow up themselves if they had financial and military backing of the US like Israel has. Unilateral support of Israel by the US only shows that your government does not care about the goodwill of Palestine. This is however separate issue. Lets only hope that you are right and this war will bring peace and stability to the region. However, more than likely this war will generate more hatred toward Western nations and more attacks like September 11 around the globe.

I,m really P.O.ed that this topic is showing up at tech sites. I personally belive that this is not the forum for this. I come to these sites for the latest in tech news (both hardware and software). If I wanted to here peoples opinions of the war, I would go else where.

This isn't just a tech site. The forums here cover a broad range of topics. If you don't like what you see in Talk Soup, then venture to the more tech orientated sections. Talk Soup is here to talk about our day, and what has happened.

Israelites were put there by the U.N. or League of Nations....I think U.N.

For over a decade thousand of people haved died because of both sides.

The Palestinians were very upset when the Israelites were placed in a land that they claimed as their holy land.

Not only is it their holy land but also several other religions.

They do suicide attacks because they feel they have no other way to voice themselves.

It is not a way of defending themselves. They have their lands set aside and the Israelites have theirs. Both want Juruesleam* because their holy city. That is another reason why they fight. Both want it to control but neither are supposed to. The U.N. is supposed to.

This is a Talk Soup forum after all.

Perhaps I should have the 'latest forum posts block' block the off topic and talk soup forums.

After reading the comments from my buddy living in (neutral) Norway, Ive come to the conculsion that if you were here right now LL Id kick the livin shit right out of you. Ace says I have to bye ya a beer afterwards, but Id still kick the shit out ya.

I'm afraid you may have missed a few decades of the struggle Israel has had to go through to remain in existence since it was created by the United Nations in 1948. The State of Israel was created in the land where the Israelis had called home thousands of years ago, long before the Palestinians had ever come to the region. Since then the Palestinians, as well as several other Arab countries, have been doing their best to eradicate Israel from the face of the Earth.

The last use of overt force happened in June of 1967, probably well before you were born. It is now refered to as the Six Day War. In response to troops from Egypt, Jordan, and Syria massing on its borders Israel launched a pre-emptive strike that took out the airfields of those nations. Israel them went on to take the Sinai Peninsula and the Gaza Strip from Egypt, the Golan Heights from Syria, and the West Bank from Jordan. They could have gone into Cairo, but did not.

Since the end of that conflict Israel has been subjected to terrorist attacks by several different groups. The one thing these groups have in common is their ethnicity and their desire to kill as many Israelis as they possibly can, using any means at their disposal.

These groups do not limit their attacks to the borders of Israel, as witnessed by the kidnapping and murder of members of the Israeli Olympic team in Munich, Germany, in 1972. I remember watching this particular atrocity unfold on television and I will never forget it.

I do not call all Palestinians terrorists, only those that do things like plant bombs in public places with the sole purpose of killing civilians; drive cars and trucks loaded with explosives into crowded areas and blow them up with the express purpose of killing civilians; or strap as many explosives as they can to their own bodies, walk into a crowded area, and blow themselves up, again in order to kill as many civilians as they possibly can. Let's not forget the snipers, either.

There is lots of info on Hardware and Software on the front page and in other parts of this forum ( and some other forums too :wink: )
But this area is just for speaking out, expressing hopes and fears, and sharing the news on a more personal basis.
We may be geeks, but we are effected by the world around us.

From the computer side, the technology being displayed, both for fighting and covering the war is amazing.

[quote]

Palestinians are not terrorists. Isreal calls them "terrorists" to justify its actions. I guess "terrorist" is a very popular word those days. Isreal is occupying Palestinians territories and not the other way around. Palestinians do nothing else but defending what is theirs. I think that they would not have to blow up themselves if they had financial and military backing of the US like Israel has. Unilateral support of Israel by the US only shows that your government does not care about the goodwill of Palestine. This is however separate issue. Lets only hope that you are right and this war will bring peace and stability to the region. However, more than likely this war will generate more hatred toward Western nations and more attacks like September 11 around the globe.[/quote]

I'm afraid you may have missed a few decades of the struggle Israel has had to go through to remain in existence since it was created by the United Nations in 1948. The State of Israel was created in the land where the Israelis had called home thousands of years ago, long before the Palestinians had ever come to the region. Since then the Palestinians, as well as several other Arab countries, have been doing their best to eradicate Israel from the face of the Earth.

The last use of overt force happened in June of 1967, probably well before you were born. It is now refered to as the Six Day War. In response to troops from Egypt, Jordan, and Syria massing on its borders Israel launched a pre-emptive strike that took out the airfields of those nations. Israel them went on to take the Sinai Peninsula and the Gaza Strip from Egypt, the Golan Heights from Syria, and the West Bank from Jordan. They could have gone into Cairo, but did not.

Since the end of that conflict Israel has been subjected to terrorist attacks by several different groups. The one thing these groups have in common is their ethnicity and their desire to kill as many Israelis as they possibly can, using any means at their disposal.

These groups do not limit their attacks to the borders of Israel, as witnessed by the kidnapping and murder of members of the Israeli Olympic team in Munich, Germany, in 1972. I remember watching this particular atrocity unfold on television and I will never forget it.

I do not call all Palestinians terrorists, only those that do things like plant bombs in public places with the sole purpose of killing civilians; drive cars and trucks loaded with explosives into crowded areas and blow them up with the express purpose of killing civilians; or strap as many explosives as they can to their own bodies, walk into a crowded area, and blow themselves up, again in order to kill as many civilians as they possibly can. Let's not forget the snipers, either.[/quote]

Firstly the Six Day War was waged between Israel, Syria and Egipt not Palestinians. Palestinians are simply unfortunate people whose land is of a strategic importance to Israel. Israel seized these territories to have better defense against future aggressions but now they use this land for new Isreali settlers at the same time displacing Palestinians. Israel can get away with this because they have American backing. Israel is the only nation in this region who is truly friendly to Unites States. Other Middle East counties like Saudi Arabia are only pretending to be your friends and they certainly do not wish you well. At the end it is again all about the oil because United States, as powerful might be, is totally depended on Middle East and its reach oil resources and it needs one true ally. Thus it is obvious why the conflict between Jews and Palestinians will never end and why America will never help people of Palestine. Secondly I still do not think that Palestinians who blow themselves up should be called Terrorists. The phrase “terrorist” is very flexible and it might be seen differently depending whose point of view you take. For example Nazis referred to armed resistance on the occupied territories as terrorists during WWII.

You rearranged the quote tags, but I found your response. I am not quoting your response because it's making the posts too big, IMO.

In my second paragraph I clearly state who the combatants were in the Six Day War. I also state the areas that were taken from each country by Israel in that conflict. No where in my post do I claim that the Palestinians were involved as combatants in the Six Day War. I used the Six Day War to illustrate the level of animosity that the Arab countries have toward Israel and to illustrate why the attacks have gone from being overt to being guerilla in nature. Because the Arab countries could not remove Israel by the use of their armies they have turned to acts of random violence against civilians to try and drive Israel out of the Middle East.

Clearly, bbc, we are at an impasse. I believe that Israel has a right to the land that they are finally able to call home after being kicked all over the globe for centuries, never mind the millenia persecution and near-extermination by Hitler during WWII.

I believe Israel has the right to defend its people from the attacks they have been subjected to since the very day the State of Israel was brought into being by the United Nations. I feel Israel is justified in looking for the leaders and members of the groups that are claiming responsibility for what I feel are barbaric atrocities being perpetrated upon innocent civilians.

You feel that Israel is sitting on land that belongs to the Palestinians and that the attacks on Universities, restaurants, and shopping centers constitutes the 'protection of their territory'. You appear to condone the tactics that the P.L.O., Hamas, and Islamic Jihad are using against the Israelis and anyone else that happens to be in the area. You don't feel that the act of sneaking into Israel to plant exposives to kill unsuspecting people are acts of terrorism.

I've stated my opinions and you have stated yours. We aren't going to change our minds. I respect your beliefs, though I do not agree with them, and suggest that we move on to other topics of discussion that are more likely to bear fruit.

Let me say only this and lets finish this discussion. I do not agree with killing anyone. I never said killing Israelis by Palestinians is a good thing. This would be an absurd for me to say. Any innocent life lost is something that should be regretted and should be avoided. I think that rarely discussions like this end with convincing one party to the arguments of the other. However, I still think that discussions like this are needed and are always fruitful because they make us share our opinions and think about those tough issues. At the end it is up to us, average people, to make this world better place to live.

Can't we just forget all the politics for now and get behind supporting the troops.

nope... but gimme a ride and i'll go help

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=200303...21-023627-5923r

Thats the real deal Ace, people need to wake up and smell the burning towers. These people are butchers with no reguard for ANY human life cept their own.

Monsters likw Ben and Saddam would kill you, your wife, and all your children without batting an eye or losing 1 second of sleep.

US TROOPS CAPTURE CHEMICAL PLANT



http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pag...d=1048389497622

Nothing like a camoflaged-chemical-plant-sized smoking gun to get the French to choke on their wine at dinner.

A huge chemical weapons factory has been found in Iraq, according to Pentagon sources.

The facility was found by advancing US troops in An Najaf, around 100 miles south of Baghdad, the sources say.

The general in charge of the factory was arrested by the 1st Brigade of the Third Infantry division and is being questioned, the sources said.

An unconfirmed report by Fox news said the complex is around 100-acres, adjacent to military barracks and surrounded by an electric fence.
Sky News Reporter Ian Woods said if the claims are substantiated they will in part vindicate President Bush and Prime Minister Blair.

They have argued the case for war against Iraq on the grounds that Saddam Hussein had banned weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological weapons.

The Iraqi regime has always denied this and UN weapons inspectors sent back into the country at the end of last year failed to find any evidence to suggest otherwise.
And on this find the UN said it did not know of any such installation.


http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,3000...1084802,00.html

here here! These animals have no regard for any humans life, and they have tought their kin to be even more evil. Problems need to be stopped before they become major disasters. Killing isn't a good solution, but sometimes it's the ONLY solution.

3000+ innocent women, children and men. How many more lives are we willing to give up and just let terrorism slide by?

Sounds like a no go on that big smoking gun for now.

CNN reported yesterday tat The United States said Sunday it had protested to Moscow about reports that Russian firms have sold Iraq antitank missiles, night vision goggles and jamming gear.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/23/...ales/index.html

not good, not good at all...