Unemployment hits 25 year high. So, need to go hunting, fishing, and do gardening even more! The barter system is not that bad a way to go either. Trading had always been good for Yankee Traders of the past-in fact, we had an entire fleet of ships devoted to the practice in the past. As pappy indicted in one of his posts-time to consider taking care of your family-perhaps, stocking a few provisions the for the short run would be a consideration?

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE4AC40B20081113

Family, relatives, friends and those you know first. Everyone else has to fend for themselves. Some a$$hole was bragging that he knew a trader that pulled $ 1 billion profit from selling short on the stocks related to mortgages. So, at $ 333,333 per house as a nice round number this creep put 3, 333 families on the street at his profit and their expense. Having the skin flayed off this creep while still alive and then tossed into a vat of iodine, salt and acid would be too kind. C*cks*kers the lot of them. This sh*thead speculation only favours the ultra rich at the expense of the middle class and poor. They truly don't give a sh*t about anyone else. They have never had to and never will. They consider anyone "below" their station and economic status nothing more than dray horses, peons and wage slaves that should dance attendance upon their every whim. They don't consider "us" to be humans. Period. The government, the banking system, the financial system, the economic mechanisms of capitalism all favour those with great wealth and power. Democracy? Freedom? Mere illusions for the masses. Work hard and you will succeed. Ha ha ha. Okay.

Im with him ^^

"The government, the banking system, the financial system, the economic mechanisms of capitalism all favour those with great wealth and power. Democracy? Freedom? Mere illusions for the masses. Work hard and you will succeed. Ha ha ha. Okay." T_b

T_B, Your first sentence is unfortunately, predicated on the fact that pirates have taken over a ship (capitalism), and the ship is now a pirate vessel-the ship is merely the tool that no-goodnicks elected to use to thump (Hmmm … trump) and control economically the destinies of others-somewhat primitive, but, obviously, given their present "economic slaves" or captives, quite effective. Principally, economic pirates have facilitated the short fall with sub-prime home loans, and within the banking, and Wall Street segments-profits for them has been great!

The point, from my understanding, is not so much in doing away, or replacing a system, Capitalist to Socialist, i.e., the re-organization of the present system, but rather who is pulling the trigger, and in this metaphor, it is the pirates! A socialist system supposedly, is an economic and political system based on state ownership of the means of production, and distribution-not unlike currently, and most problematically, buying auto plants, banks, insurance concerns-and maybe even, Starbucks?

Generally, a socialist system includes what is an oxymoron in terms of phraseology-or, that is, "rational" social societal planning to achieve desired goals. Sounds nice, but a European socialist president-or pinko leader, found that building red marble palaces for himself, and his family was not the thing to do, especially when he and his entire family stretched a rope in their nice new red marble courtyard. Can’t do red marble palaces, when all the country was starving to death-at least Marie, wanted to give everybody cake! In addition, to the horror of many academics that were teaching Marxism as a principle ideological issue in the universities, the USSR, or the biggest pinko of all, cold war era, could not build walls that were permanent, particularly in Berlin-and they kissed the dust too. Strange, that the left in the United States wants these leftist policies invoked now rather than revamping our system-tossing the baby out with the bath water bit!

Indeed, do support Capitalism in terms of economic motivation in a "free market place"-unfortunately, currently another oxymoron, that confuses honesty, trust, respect, and good will for others, with a more primitive uncooperative economic feeding frenzy that more than emulates the brutal economics of these current times! Do contend, the capitalistic system is sound, but, clearly some of the actors in Congress and the Senate need to do better intellectually, along with being cooperative with each other, and indeed supportive of existing laws that deal with these types of indifferent, and many times criminal economic activities. Do not see the sky falling, but do see many misinformed people suffering from the bullchps many leftist leaders have so foolishly promoted for their own self-aggrandizement, and by their remarkable sustained ignorance. Thanks for your response t_b.

Well, first off, thanks for the input, Df.

Secondly, I believe very strongly in capitalism. What I don't believe in is calling a stacked deck a level playing field. That is just horse hockey.

Thirdly, Communism (better known as Command State Economies) work in theory but not in reality. Those that gain power abuse it, those that have power don't want to relinquish it, those that want power use dirty tricks to get it. Socialism isn't much better. Look at the sh*t storm the Dutch have with their "welcome everyone" policy. They have a simmering underclass, mostly Muslim, which is about to blow sky high. Every instance of flat out pure "Communist" countries have and will fail. Reason: you can't eliminate jealousy, greed, envy and the pursuit and abuse of power. Period.

Capitalism aka financial elitism, is rampant in North America. It is very simple, the law is written to support those that have and not those that don't have. Example: If I personally file my income tax and "push the limits" with my deductions, I can end up in prison. If I am well off enough to have a Chartered Accountant or Tax Lawyer file on my behalf, they can claim just about anything, within reason, whether true or not and if the government disagrees, no sh*t falls back to me nor will/can I be prosecuted for it. <Unless of course I intentionally mislead my C.A. or Lawyer.>

The relationship between the ultra wealthy, M.N.C. (multinational corps) Special Interest Groups, Defence contractors and the Gov't. has to be monitored far better than it is now. There is/was far too much hanky panky and shennanigans with the gov't purposefully looking the other way. <Bronfmans and Irvines taking hundreds of millions out of the country without paying a cent in taxes.>
You try taking $10.000 across the border undeclared and see the bucket of crud you will fall into.

The ongoing suspension of civil liberties in the U.S. thru the Homeland Security Act and other power grabbing, civil rights stripping activities. I think there is also the suspension of Habeous Corpus in force right now?

Anyway, Hurricane Carter said it best when asked about how he liked his "freedom" in Canada. To which her replied: "Freedom? "No, free from."" Free from excess hassles and racist baloney."

Canada should be ashamed. We have see what the U.S. has gone thru and then we emulated some of their bad habits. Shame on us.

T_b do and always will support the people of Canada, and their generosity, honor, and zest for life, and freedom-most of all, which was noted, and demonstrated in the past! Especially, when Canadians saved many Americans in Iran by hiding them out in their Embassy-thereby, putting themselves at great risk, and peril-all to many people forgot about this-some of course, were not born yet. Nevertheless, agree that the laws are not the same for all, and some laws do clearly support others disproportionately, e.g., that are not in the same economic mix. Yet, consider those-a large part of the population, that do not pay any taxes, and have been receiving public funds for years-as currently, in many industrialized countries-surely, both for the good, and the bad. Finally, do not believe in putting old people on ice-flows as an economic remedy! Thanks you for your in-put.

Please remember that I am half American and if I could afford it, I would move to the warm southern states in a heartbeat. All my comments are directed equally against the rich and greedheads in Canada and the U.S.. Other than Homeland Security, all comments apply equally to Canada and the U.S.. There are great things about both countries and horrendous ones also. Please note Canada's treatment of the indigenous First Nation's Peoples with the schools. A wretchedly shameful time for Canada and it's government. Also, the prison camps for Japanese during the WWII and the stripping of their assets. How come Canadian Germans and Italians weren't treated thusly? Ah yes, must be the skin colour. Hypocrasy doesn't recognize borders, the 49th parallel, religion, race or social status. Some folks can have all the money and no class and some folks can have all the class and no money. Attitude is everything.

First off, I wouldn't believe the MSM if they said the Pope was Catholic. The data is skewed, and statistics can be manipulated to produce any outcome you want.

Who or what is the MSM? Sorry, I'm uneducated as to your abbreviation.

MSM = Main Stream Media = Reuters, CNN, NBC, BBC, AP, etc....

Ah, I see. Thank-you Ron. I agree. They only, for the most part, throw up what sells, NOT what is current or real. As a group, a lot of what they publish is as a schill for the rich and special interest groups.

Mr Burner why don't you come here for the winter. Two emty bedrooms and we will get by.
its 80 out rite now.

Giri and obligation my friend. It's my Mom's 80th birthday party a week Saturday. I have clients that rely on me. I also have my cat that loves me and that I couldn't give up. I would truly love to spend some time down there with you Pap but duty calls me to stay here. Thank-you for the great offer though. Perhaps in the New Year for a shorter period of time?

Paps has a nice place

Ace-do understand the rampant biases that the main stream media has, and did do for this election. Yet, still get the LA times, on the week-ends. Why? Because the opinion section is quite valued by me, and fits nicely on the bottom of my bird cages. Occasionally, do put the LA times, under the sand of my cat box-indeed it works great!

In terms of Reuters, and the Associated press, find these less biased politically than the rest you noted. In fact, Reuters initially set up their system just to prevent this accusation, and which is now in existence-even hard hitting Murdock did not capture control of this news concern as noted in link history below. Do like Fox Network. Agree with t_b that advertising plays a big part in news direction-either overtly, and unfortunately as open activists, i.e., as the main stream media clearly indicated with their irresponsible "Liberal" reporting, and snow jobs. Still, there is a subtle undercurrent in all news organizations, unless of course they are independently wealthy. In any event, it appears that any biases are more subtle, if any with Reuters, and the Associated press, and not as blatantly reported currently as news with the other main stream media you noted-IMHO . Thanks for your input.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Reuters

It's not only advertizing jerking the papers, magazines and tv stations, it is the owners and editors in cahoots/bowing to outside pressures and internal prejudices and predilictions that dictate the "slant" of the writing and what is/is not published, printed, aired. Too bad, the truth is the first casulty.

Agree, yet it is often what is left out of print than what is put in that indeed is disturbing! That is the owners and editors/secured to outside financial interests-or members of the board, that collectively formed a voting block for what they want to print.

I go to about 24 news sources to get the "Full" story. I don't rely on any single one.

24 news sources are a lot of sources-good for you! Generally, find that the United States Department of Labor is a good place to check labor statistics out, and one that I use, and prefer rather than any news paper sources to insure and recheck media claims. Initially, the statistics were checked out and found to be reasonably with in current facts, and projections of the United States Census Department findings.

http://www.bls.gov/

http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.us.htm

Good call, Df. I always admire your balanced approach. Ace is a hardcore news fiend, I suspect. I try to stay marginally acquainted with what it topical without straining my brain. Don't want to overwork those tired hamsters. LOL.

x3

Thanks Snuffy. Every once in a while I hit the nail on the head or at least close enough to it to be recognized as telling some of the truth. Unlike our respective governments who seem to have developed an intense aversion to it.

The thing to remember about unemployment statistics is that by their very nature they're flawed, which makes them wrong. The only people who count as unemployed are those who are receiving unemployment benefits from the government. Which means anyone who has exhausted their benefits, anyone who never applied for benefits, anyone who was denied benefits, and anyone who is underemployed (not regular part-time workers, but those who lost full-time employment and now can only get minimal hours for minimal wages) are NOT counted.

Basically, you can take whatever number the DOL is giving and at minimum double it to get the true picture of unemployment at any given time. That may not always be accurate, but it's a whole lot closer than the published numbers. DOL is a great source, they just can only provide the information they're allowed to collect.

There is a category of workers and potential workers label the "Reserve Army of Labor." Usually, those folks that are older, and retired, or younger, and in school-both usually not employed, nor counted. Then there is a multi-billion dollar hidden work force-nevertheless, the Internal Revenue Service takes a great interest in the "Underground Economy" that sell their services, merchandise, and generally work in cash-many avoiding federal income tax.

Finally, there are the homeless people-these were referred to by President Ronald Reagan, as "Outdoorsmen" those that preferred to live in the open fresh air under stars at night. There are still more that may, or may not work, and that have not been counted-in many instances! These e.g., may comprise 15/30 million undocumented/and illegal aliens-the INS is always interested in these folks-but, have difficulty finding them? Except, that is, for those that work on the fence between the United States, and Mexico without documentation/papers.

Yes, only those that qualify are really counted, some even if they worked-may not have put in enough time to be counted, and collect benefits, and at times not actually recorded. Which translates into many millions of people?

I wasn't referring to the homeless, or the illegals, or to anyone else you mentioned. I was referring to the thousands of people who are no longer eligible to collect unemployment because their 26 weeks have run out. I was referring to the thousands of people who have never applied for unemployment even though they've lost their jobs. I was referring to the thousands of people who used to make a six-figure income, and now are working as clerks at gas stations.